Glenn and John begin by debating the merits of Coming Apart, Charles Murray's new book on the "white underclass." John likes the book's focus on the importance of culture; Glenn acknowledges that culture matters while rejecting Murray's conclusion that public policy can do little to help the poor.  They also debate whether the ascendancy of a black president has led to more emphasis on class and less on race in political discourse. Glenn and John next discuss controversial remarks about gays by CNN's Roland Martin. They go on to debate the moral status of religiously founded beliefs that homosexuality is immoral.